Doddler's RO Journal
Kirano wrote on July 29, 2008
Nice rant. =) It was a joy to read from someone who's not screaming at everything but analyzes and postulates. I enjoyed the entire reading, I really did.
lola wrote on July 29, 2008
Remembering old RO times,where lex+asura strike=mvp ;)
Vaqaas of Iris wrote on July 29, 2008
RO Mechanics is the prominent reason why I want to quit this game, this game can be summed up quite simply... They tried too hard. Also, some of the stubborn, ignorant people who play this game make me want to quit.
l2ei wrote on July 29, 2008
well i must say i agree with your rant, the way Ragnarok appears to be evolving always bring us new monsters, new equipment but in the end we must do the same process and i deeply share the feeling of MVP's being too much of a trouble with a lack on their rewards; what i mean is that i love RO because of it's complete mechanics of calculations and systems but we need no more items or monsters, what i think we need is more ways to play the game, there is no fun in killing harder mobs to hope they drop harder/better things, for me thats like playing lottery, [abuse of bug+chance of getting a rare] = [buy a ticket for 1 buck+chance of winning] anyway i'm sory for spiting this here but it is something that i want them to change since i was a crappy crit sin~ anyway let's hope this game rise again, at least we will have some fun with 3rd classes soon enough, that would buy them some time to concentrate /heh, cya dodd~
Dagda wrote on July 29, 2008
Come play WoW, all bosses are guaranteed to drop shaman shit.
Joker wrote on July 30, 2008
why so SERIOUS, son?
Phaust wrote on July 30, 2008
GJ doddler
Knifff wrote on July 30, 2008
They're actually making decent stuff (Orc Dungeon, Sealed Shrine, Vision of Okolnir), those are nice concepts.
Hope they'll continue that way, I'm sick of brainless MVP challenges.
Zues wrote on July 30, 2008
As much as I look forward to the new updates I feel that iRO is aged to old for the content their trying to produce. Once again the majority of new content will be out of reach for non trans characters. The player count is to weak for across the board on Mvps ect basically like doddler said, only the few who can take mvps get the rewards while the rest have to sit on the side lines and only hope to have enough cash to buy the mvp gear.
Its a shame to, Gravity should of changed all the lower end mvps to spawn more and weaker so new players or your average joe could be involved and get hooked in to mvping. but instead once again only 10% of people who play are invovled with any mvps. I think Gravity promoted WoE to heavily to the point where mvps and other events seem to no longer exsist.
Its the old phrase that comes to mind, "The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor."
and thats the problem with Ragnarok and its slow ticking of its death clock. 99% of any new players i see are bots, infact i dont think ive seen or meet a single new player whos never played Ragnarok. Its always some one "returning" back to ragnarok.
I must admit, i even find my self enjoying the game less and less now. Ask any old player from the start (beta and pre-comomdo days) and they'll tell you, its a completely different game that lost that feel of that good old Ragnarok that we all want back.
Zues wrote on July 30, 2008
Oh doddler, heres something for ya.
http://www.pro-gamers.fr/index.php/News/Ragnarok-Online-se-devoile-sur-Nintendo-DS.html
At first glance it seems like RO but i'm sure you'll notice that there seems to be a odd looking NPC or character that seems to be following around "I presume" to be the character you control. Also the famitsu mag labels it as a "RPG" not a "MMO" which leads me to believe its a single player game but can link up with other players for multiplayer to take out big mvps ect.
Also no trans characters are shown as playable nor are 2-2 jobs. Just first class and 2-1 jobs. So I feel 90% stong about it not being Ragnarok "Online" but if it is indeed on-line, those players i imagine would not be sharing the same world as PC players, their both 2 completely different games.
It comes out in Japan on December 18.
BC-PLDN wrote on July 30, 2008
1 more reason why RO is slowly but surely dying, and the reason is "FREE MMOs". Yup, you heard it right. Most players nowadays tend to be more practical. Hey I get the same feeling when playing on a server, or a different game but does not require me to give off my hard earned money (either given as allowance by parents or thru working). I wonder why there are online games out there that has tons of updates, always up (well most of the time) but does not needed to be loaded in order for you to enjoy your character.
If Gravity has any hope of significantly "reviving" Ragnarok, they should, well, lessen? the amount needed to play. Or the other reason is to kill the free MMOs.
Yue wrote on July 30, 2008
I have read your 4 page report, Doddler. Nice. I've been playing RO for 5 years and everything you said is true. The Ragnarok Online community can only provide feedback on how Gravity will implement future game developments and mechanics.
All we can do now is place our confidence on the majority of the game's population (90% usually, including me) that just accept things the way they are and the way they will be. They are the players that keep the game fun. The rest of the population (elites and hardcores), though few, who have the luxury on being on top should definitely feel the concern preserving the average players' well~being by being the decent representatives of public opinion.
[Thanks to Doddler and his projects] ^_^
Yue wrote on July 30, 2008
BC-PLDN, Ragnarok Online has a different marketing strategy from the very beginning than the other Pay to Play and Free to Play online games. It is the kind of marketing strategy being the pioneer around 2003 (in pRO) that is well~thought of and that has game development planning as long as Gravity exist.
Destroy Gravity, destroys Ragnarok Online. But as long as Gravity gains profit, Ragnarok Online is the flagship and sails with the invulnerability flag always on. Ragnarok World Championship anyone?
Zues wrote on July 30, 2008
Ragnarok World Championship anyone?
they still do that? I dont know, Rag world wide is a ship rocking around, it seems i'm hearing other regions of Rag closing down. I cant remember...but didnt another region close and merged them with our iRo version. I mean we had our famed Sakray sever close and merged with Iris and still has a terrible low player count.
now now, dont get me wrong, i'm not posting here to hate. I'm just saying what I see. I mean the biggest suprise to me was when i seen the whole "Karfa shop" items go for sell. That right then told me "The death clock is ticking".
and i do agree with BC-PLDN. Free MMO are spawning every where. Mable Story grows every day, I mean they even have commericals.
And yet here i pay every month to walk in to a town filled with Gil Sellers and Botters.
But heres the sad truth, and i hope Doddler does a post on this and expose the sad truth. And that sad truth is... We need Botters. We need those automated programs to run around and kill stuff. Why is that? well bots make up i bet 20% of the player count on Rag. If those bots go away, can you imagine what the prices on rag would be? All those every day items would be gone, cards would go through the roof, from slotted shoes to 3 slotted swords would raise 10x. because those bots are no longer around, you have to hunt them your selves then or pay the high price the legit players got.
its the "unspeakable truth". We need bots to keep Rag alive. Have you seen what the market place in pontera looks like with out bots? you would then see just how empty rag has begun to grow.
Ren wrote on July 30, 2008
I'm not sure if I buy into your "they make other skills stronger to balance out strong skills" theory.
Nothing but bad things have happened to back stab.
Nothing but bad things have happened to Blitz Beat.
Nothing but bad things have happened to Heat (not saying the changes were bad, but definitely weakened the skill)
As far as i'm concerned the magnum break change to give your weapon fire property was also a negative change.
Also, I think Ragnarok does have balance issues. I think it is very telling when you compare the numbers of each trans class to each other. There are allot of Sinx, High Priests, and Biochems. But comparatively their are few Stalkers, Master smiths (and suprisingly i see few snipers, I don't know if they are all 99 already or if people get bored of them but I don't see many around these days)
Atum wrote on July 30, 2008
While you mentioned the drawbacks of super agi up and the increased power of powerup you forgot to mention the triple hit MVPs get when activating power up, rendering all twohandclasses and agiclasses (who use flee as their defense instead of reduction) useless for MVPing these monsters.
I agree that MVPs are getting too impossible for the average player to kill, i'd like to see more MVPs like beelzebub and Hibram, who dont use powerup/earthquake but are challenging due to their tricky skills and mass effects so you dont really depend on rare gear like GR/GTB and +10 equip to survive it but you need a good team to kill the monster.
I hope that there will be some big changes with the new kro testings and stat changes (like you wrote on irowiki) making the game better and more balanced :)
Zable Fahr wrote on July 30, 2008
"For this reason I usually simply laugh to myself when I read of complaints about character balance."
I love this sentence. ^
I never could actually say what I meant, but I never thought that some classes are overpowered. If you level a mastersmith instead of an easy going - Let's say Champ nowadays - you'll be rewarded with a half way unique character. Not many got them even though they are feared cause of melt down.
That's my thought about it.
I recently thought about MVPs a little more and came down to the thought, that in many cases you could make good use of a SL - Kaizel ^^
Go on ~
Doddler wrote on July 30, 2008
No Zues, we only need bots if you want to keep the low prices. Just because an item becomes more rare doesn't mean that its bad. When no bots are hunting Thara Frogs, the price of thara frog cards will indeed go through the roof. But you know, as the price goes up, people will start going to Thara Frogs to get in on some of this huge source of zeny. Newer players could make zeny by hunting easier lower level monster knowing that people still need shoes, mufflers, etc. Its a type of balance that many of us simply can't appreciate BECAUSE bots exist.
JS wrote on July 30, 2008
What you have said, doddler, is probably nothing new to many players who actually cares about the game. The ways they make skills/mvp stronger instead of balancing or improving the game content are actually no surprised to me. After looking, first, at how they introduce the trans chars and, second, how they model the trans chars (to be n times stronger than non-trans), I was sure that gravity will do more of it. I still remember how my friend made an pure emp breaking sin (pre trans) that is very hard to lvl, then he was forced to totally give him up because trans was introduced. I feel but sad about RO because it was so successful in the early years. I'd say everything starts to screw up after trans.
1 more thing. It's been like 6 years gravity. Please... FIX THE GOD DAMN SCREEN LAG!
Tayu wrote on July 31, 2008
Ragnarok Online isn't the game it used to be.
I remember the times when Wizard and Hunters were both crowned the MvP champions and that they would usually get the MvP.
I remember when Soul Strike was a popular skill.
I remember when people didn't get shunned in WoE and pvp by not having at least 40 VIT in their builds.
Too many "counter-balancing" from the transcendent classes' arrival have made such an impact on the game. Just because Assumptio was introduced, almost every MvP in the game cannot be defeated by a non-transcendent party without god items. Many 2nd classes are obsolete. The only reason you would have a Crusader. Dancer/Bard, Sage, Alchemist, or Assassin, is because you wanted to be the Transcendent Class.
There is no more of "Strength in numbers". It is now a game based completely off of Transcendent characters and equipment.
Last note: I still find it ridiculous how Satan Morroc's and many other MvP's normal attack power is higher than most class's maximum hp.
Many things need rebalancing, but I personally don't think I can handle a complete revamp of the game. I have been playing on and off since iRO beta and I don't know if I can take relearning the entire game just because of another level of jobs just like the transcendent classes.
Storm Gust wrote on July 31, 2008
oh my ****ing god............RO need to fix EVERYTHING! from A to Z >"< i've been trying to get like a scholar on a pserver but is having trouble becuz of lack of exp and places >"< or a bow rouge (or maybe i jsut dunno where >_>) welll mostly its LAG...GTB has a few ways with out traps to be abused.....across the river no bridge for to come over .....perfect for hindcast - double bolt scholars to kill it
true!
Wild Tengu wrote on July 31, 2008
My main beef with RO is to do anything like pvp/woe/mvp you have to be extremely high level and trans to pull it off well, but the problem is it takes too fucking long to level. The drop rate on items is also so fucking low, it's pathetic. Why the hell hunt for months and months when it could be done in a few days and have what you wanted?
I know Gravity wants to make money off RO, but jesus, do they expect players to continuously play this game for years? What about the new players that are looking to play a game for a couple of weeks and take a break for a few months? How will they get to experience the joys of high level play with nice equipment if they are never able to reach those high levels?
The fact that once you hit level 99 and have to go back to level 1, and essentially get nearly twice as much experience to get back to the high levels makes it so lame and a waste. How the fuck are players gonna level beyond level 99 when the 3rd classes drop? Even the new monsters don't give nearly enough experience at the official x1 rates.
If you wanna enjoy RO, I say play on a p.server at x10-x20 or so, the leveling process is more balanced, alot of these servers have a good strong player base, and you can enjoy the high level high end gameplay of RO without the frusteration.
Anthor wrote on July 31, 2008
I must admit that gravity should revise some things, even with big mvp when 2 parties know well how to kill him it soften result in griefing for winning. They are constanly making mvp with higher atk and ect, there is so many bug in this game, I even saw randris made one time by abusing the 199 aspd plant bug, (used the plant to activate +20 def from wolfheiden and +10 from ice titan to get 100 pure def.
Mischelle, iRO Iris wrote on July 31, 2008
Mostly I agree with you, doddler.
No, In fact I entirely agree with you. On the matter of MvP strength, I've been able to Duo Egnigem, Hydrolancer, Hero, n Kiel with ease yet any MvP using earthquake floors my team. There's an issue there to be handled.
As for MvP rewards, as always you are ambiguous as to what you think the reward should be. So far as the reward %s for MvPing do not get too high, I agree. But it must remain low enough to maintain the motivation to keep it up. But one main reason MvPing rewards are low is because one of the high % rate drops from MvPs is now worthless... that being the OPB, formerly the only way to obtain S.Sunnies. When OPB had this item, MvPing against bosses that dropped it was profitable simply for the chance to have a chance to get S.S. Now, no longer. OPB at best drop rare cute headgear. If they were to implement any... all, or some of the new gear into OPBs, even without changing drop rates, the reward for MvPing would go up.
Of course, I think some of the drop rates should increase, as well... having over 200 Hero Emblem, I've yet to have a LE drop.
But if it gets so high that MvPing is "one and done" and you have your item, that isn't as fun... is it? Something I like, what they have done with many new items, is to increase bonuses based on refine rate. Refining being... well... you've done the testing, so you know what it is :>
Bluntly, if older items are given the same treatment (ie: upgrade Fireblend increases chance of casting firebolt) to the point that overupgrading not only makes them good, but awesome (Hurricane Fury, anyone?) people are going to try for it. 90% of these gears will break, and people will go back to hunting Phree for Sucsamads.
Of course, to do that isn't just a drop rate change or AI adjustment... it's code rewriting. Still, ideally what should happen is enough drop rate to make MvPing worthwhile without flooding the market with items no one has a use for. Right now the consumables market is the only way to make money. I believe if you make the gear market more like the consumables market (mob drop->influx Hollgrehenn->outflow) it will be profitable again. Do you agree, Doddler?
l2ei wrote on July 31, 2008
@ Mischelle i must say i totally agree with you in the matter of making old/useless items increase their bonuses via refining, that would make ppl need to hunt a lot more of practical drops instead of hunting always for the same 5 or 6 things (whisper, hydras, sw, wools, tidals, etc's) if they update some of the old items Ro might become a bit more fluent and that would be like revitalizing it a bit, i hope gravity aim to this in the future~
Tommy wrote on July 31, 2008
Anyone or Doddler know the current population on kRO, jRO and iRO?
I am interested in seeing how alive/dead ro is.
Yue wrote on July 31, 2008
@Zues, yes there are Ragnarok Online servers closing down in some countries and their respective gaming population absorbed into another country's server like what happened to India. Feasibility always plays a part in Ragnarok Online's success and we can't expect everyone to play because gamers also have different cultures and what kind of game appeals to their locales. [this is evident to Ragnarok Online beta success with countries that have appreciation towards anime culture] The topic is the same with the implementation of Item Mall.
By the way, no matter how many players find bot programs useful and practical today [leveling, supply slims and pay off guildsmen in WoE], Ragnarok Online from the very start could have lived without them, not to mention, how destructive they were to the population and the game's integrity. Besides, they are not really part of the core game design and brought into inception by 3rd party programmers who are really part of Gravity's legal policy. Bot programs can never be given a morally correct justification.
@Wild Tengu, people who like official Ragnarok Online servers will play the game as long as they can find satisfaction in their online gaming experience. New players should understand what kind of investment they need to dedicate in terms of time, money and effort to play these kind of games.
Yue wrote on July 31, 2008
who are "NOT" really part of Gravity's legal policy.
[sorry, there's no EDIT option]
@I2ei, not a bad idea, but they would rather add newer content to make older content less valuable.
Odin wrote on August 1, 2008
can someone send me a link for downloading the game? please?? cuz the iro link wont let me download >.<" thank you^^
BC-PLDN wrote on August 1, 2008
there's 1 justification i can get from bots... .02 drop rates, 299,999,999 EXP from level 98 to 99. We have a life outside RO. We can say that Gravity made everything so freakin hard to do in little time so that u will spend more money = they get richer and richer. You do the math pal, u seem to cant see the (obvious) scam here.
PC-PLDN wrote on August 1, 2008
Your basically just speaking for urself, since u seem to be not affected by it, coz if u do, you'll have more "realism" in ur statements. Your stand is the stand of someone who does not seem to know what's going on, come on, it's either ur blind or what. Reality check please.
Yue wrote on August 1, 2008
@BC-PLDN, we have a life outside RO. Yes, Gravity made everything so freaking hard to do in little time so that you will spend more money but that won't stop the gaming community from trying so hard and giving that much "freaking effort" as well. Bots are already a reality if not a necessity to some but are still unjustifiable from the very start. Their existence is one major contributing factor why the amount of ridiculous exp to level up. I don't know what Gravity's firm stance to resolve these issues but i can see how they turn botters into "milking cows" for additional profit.
Okay... now, if bots never existed Gravity wouldn't set the exp requirement to level up to 99 because that's practically inhumane. [For my reality check, I casually played Ragnarok Online since in July 2003, I only have a 3 characters. It took me 2 years to level 99 my hunter then another 2 years to level 99 into sniper. I have a colleague who created a lvl99 SB SinX in just 2 months and said to me, "Wow, you are impractical. Lolz" I said, "Yeah..."]
Sethram wrote on August 1, 2008
Interesting how after you posted this rant, Gravity puts out the renewal server that is changing the core mechanics of the game. I get the feeling from reading about some of the updates that many of the MVPs we struggle with now will probably have to be taken care of by 3rd classes, or at least will be manageable by higher level trans.
l2ei wrote on August 2, 2008
Lol yeah this was weird, we were all here wishing something to change and then omg! almost a new game is being born lets just hope that they put all their effort to do the things right and let RO be reborn from it's ashes~
Exodia wrote on August 3, 2008
Well I agree with this post ALOT. Simply because of the fact that this game is simply too hard for new players to get anywhere near to that of the Rich people in ragnarok online.
I myself have always found it simply hard to actually earn money in this game the economy is simply hard to compete. I'm still horribly under equipped for all my characters.
One thing i have always complained about is the card drop rates for a game that literally bases itself on the powers of the cards, the cards are simply too rare in order for anyone other than botters to get what they need. I remember I have once in my lifetime in the year 2003 I have spent 3 weeks straight looking for an Soldier skeleton card hunting that thing for 3 hours everyday and haven't been able to find it.
I think that's ridiculous they need to change the card drop rates and at least make it to .1% drop rates that way it's actually worth hunting for.
Agent J wrote on August 4, 2008
Interesting rant but all the mechanics are going to change? (new test server)
Storm Gust wrote on August 4, 2008
@Exodia well if the MVP cards drop rate at 0.1% then woudnt people be spammed with MVP cards?...i say make the card drop rate to 0.02% then its only a tiny bit more likely to get the card...
Tychon wrote on August 4, 2008
Maybe cards were not meant to be hunted. Maybe they were meant to be a reward for leveling. You get a card and then exchange it for other cards. Imagine if there were no bots, how valuable a Thara Frog card would be and how you would probably level there until you got one. Same with Raydric Card. I don't see why so many people think there is something wrong with RO. Doddler pointed out the only real problem with RO and that is Gravity lets "bugs" go on for too long. The trapping MVPs thing has made Valk Gear and Variants rediculously easy to come by, far easier than they should. It would be nice if having a Valk Armor was something rare or special, but frankly since Doddler introduced us to trapping they have become more and more common. I agree with him 100% that the classes are balanced. Each one excels in one aspect or another. Rogue can remove gear and pin people down, hunters can do immense damage to brute and immobilize people. If a few classes were nerfed a little it doesn't mean that they aren't balanced. You take any given class and look at someone who plays it well and it is proof enough that a good mix of different classes is the key to being successful at RO. People give up too easily and complain too much. Things usually turn out well when you just keep trying.
Tychon wrote on August 4, 2008
Sorry to double post, Doddler can yell at me harshly in vent, but another arguement for the rates being too high or just right can be justified by how often MVPs are killed. If the rewards aren't sufficient then no one would kill the MVPs, but even GTB who drops elu and gold is hunting 24 hours a day because of its card. Drake who has the worse MVP card IMO is hunted for his hat and sword. Like Doddler said MVPs like Bapho and RsX are the ones we need to look at increasing their drops value/rate or decreasing the challenge. MVPing is a privilage, not a right. You have to spend your time in the poring mines before you can tackle the big dogs.
Kirano wrote on August 4, 2008
Cards already drop at 0.02% if the whole "Apples, that should drop at 0.00%, drop, so all droprates are 0.01% higher" reasoning is correct.
Teoc wrote on August 4, 2008
I Like MVPs. But or they are hard/impossible for mid-equip characters like mine. Or they are easy, but dont worth the effort.
And grinding forever is so boring.
Exodia wrote on August 5, 2008
I forgot to mention that I would like the Mvp cards to stay teh same drop rate compared to the normal monster cards that way people can actually get their needed cards.
Yukito wrote on August 5, 2008
I agree with whoever said that 'cards were not meant to necessary' or something along those lines.
Think about it this way:
What IF... cards were only a reward to reward players for their grinding?
What IF players never had the mentality to belive that they NEEDED correct card equips and correct gears? And that players had to make do with that they had?
What IF we were never SUPPOSED to reach level 99? And that level 99 is only to reward hard working players? And that there would only be a select few Trascendent 99/70s around as the 'top of the server'.
When a players starts playing a high rate server, what do they start looking for? Good gears and cards. Because they can't play the game without them. I believe that the low droprates of the cards and gears should have geared the game towards the concept is stated above. However, bots were introduced first.
Almost every card and gear became easily accesible and necessary to play the game. Nowadays, players can't even PLAY the game without cards etc.
If bots had not been introduced, perhaps ragnarok would not have turned into the game it is today. It's too late to turn back though, as the mentality of having cards/correct gears is already burned into each player's head.
What should have been done was (after complete ambolishment of bots) would be to have lower scale equips such as cards with half the effect of a thara frog card, but being far easier to find, and basic, easily found equips to help each class.
Mischelle, iRO Iris wrote on August 5, 2008
@ Yukito
Your proposition is interesting, and yes, I can see how RO would be a fun game if those rewards were so rare that only the dedicated got them. However, there are 2 problems.
First, iRO is entertainment, not work. For certain gears to be so rare as to only make them available to hardcore players is to drive away 90% of people who would want to play otherwise. Yes, gear should be rare, but not so rare as to make it nigh impossible to get. People who play casually should have some chance to get a fair shake at better than average gear and rewards.
Second, the need for carded gears isn't a mentality. For every class to function properly, there are Must-Have cards, without which that class is not only much weaker, but weak to the point of uselessness. Before trans classes (namely assumptio skill) you could NOT party Geffen GD without Hellish shields. As a tank you needed the racial shield AND an immune garment to survive the damage you would take. Priests needed the SP regen from soul enchanted shoes, and wizards needed an under a cast accessory. These items weren't merely bonuses for high level characters, but neccesities for any practical leveling at all.
Bob wrote on August 6, 2008
Hey umm...I was checking out the Wiki future armor section and under the Diablos Chest and Diablos Ring it says that only "Trans Theif type" can use it. Please tell me thats a mess up and it means "Trans Theif, Merch, and Swordsman". I cant imagine the top high end MVP only drops gear for ONE class.
That would be so @#$*! up it wouldnt be funny.
Lonnie wrote on August 6, 2008
as usual an excelent post. and a very good read. cheers doodles
Kirano wrote on August 7, 2008
Bob: Some guy sabotaged the info on the Diablos items, you read the sabotaged information. It was reverted back since.
Hobbs wrote on August 20, 2008
Very nice this is the first thing ive read on your site, good read, The same things happening with rangris in my server, its being killed with shield reflect, you have probably heard of the method, but its rediculously easy takes a meer 5mins to kill, so it ends up being guilds teleing the mvp trying to hide it for that 5 mins to get the kill >_>
Grambo wrote on August 25, 2008
Yeah Doddler´s right, RO would be so nice game when its bug get removed...
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