Doddler's RO Journal
Lomaz wrote on August 21, 2008
very nice *HIGH FIVE!*
jerk wrote on August 21, 2008
also remove variation time pls
Marloe wrote on August 21, 2008
I support this idea; though perhaps limiting the item to 2 hr spawn and up mvps (Atros, Gloom, Kiel-D on the low and Ifrit and Rangris on the high end) would keep people from crying "abuse". The 1 hr mvp scene is modestly and reasonably competitive on the whole right now; though honestly the thought of a item that reveals GTB is hilarious.
Yue wrote on August 21, 2008
Great rant yet again Doddler! This one is very informative to know how monopolizing high~end MvPs occur in Ragnarok Online servers. This is just idea but if Gravity can just make "instanced maps/dungeons" with several time parameters for fighting MvP's then monopoly won't occur and everyone can glimpse Valkyrie Rangdris to death. I'm sure this is already doable since there are already "instanced maps" like the Endless Tower Memorial Dungeon. ^_^
Rei Windrift wrote on August 21, 2008
I support this as well. Though, I think Yue tapped it right on the head a bit.
Instanced dungeons and maps would make this a whole new ordeal. Even to the point where we wouldn't even need the convex mirrors. Everyone could get there chance at getting to take on the 'upper tier' MvPs. Though... there are faults in this too. Comp is what makes this game fun in some senses. If everything was just 'given' to the players like that, even with the overall process of having to fight and win over the MvP, it takes out many factors that make this game good. For some of the best items ingame, one should have to fight over them. So competition is necessary at times. Otherwise, this would just turn into another private server. Most other people just worry about competing because they don't see the point in it. Either the monopolizing guild will exploit dirty tactics to win, or just wondering if it's even worth it. Eventually, like what was said, the monopolizing guild would eventually have control of the times again and they'd be back to square one. The main point in THIS is that most of the truly active players will be the ones in the monopolizing guild(s), and since that guild has a good number of members or 'elite' players that can stay up or apply themselves to the task, they will always reign supreme. People, in the end, are usually always attracted to power and control after all.
eyeless wrote on August 22, 2008
Well, the teams without mirrors will be out of competition because of variation time spawn, even if they killed the previous mvp.
Doddler wrote on August 22, 2008
Variation time is only 10 minutes on a boss monster... when a boss spawns every 12 hours, a 10 minute variance is hardly a problem.
While I went overboard in bashing the current monopoly holders (Insur is not happy with me), part of the problem simply comes from people just not being willing to stand up. Insur has some members that play dirty, but honestly competition occurs so infrequently that its hardly worth mentioning. The post succeeded on the iRO forums where I intended it to, which was to provoke a reaction from players. :)
Marloe wrote on August 22, 2008
Well, the whole "playing dirty" was a little strong. Tbh, in the face of 'serious' competition Insur just has nigh *unlimited* resources to call upon. Focused on the task, an Insur biochem with all the possible support they can pour on him can kill Randgris in less than a minute. Can an inexperienced and probably "undertwinked" party reasonably compete with that? No. It's no more "playing dirty" to do so than it is to buy the pot in a poker game; it's just not "playing fair."
eyeless wrote on August 23, 2008
On ruRO, for example, Kiel D-01 spawns from 2 to 3 hours. Didn't know that this is different on iRO :)
Your mother wrote on August 24, 2008
What he means by playing dirty is when they tele the MvP on purpose or DB the fuck out of said competition.
Diamon wrote on August 25, 2008
Well, sorry for my bad English in the first place, and in the second, I wish to say following:
Doddler, as you said in previous rant - the problem is in ballance first of all and in players in second.
Every player, that lived in RO enough - for ex. beginning from 5 Ep. - must admit, that main idea of RO World has been introduced to players already and imho all new Eps are just that case, when "every good idea sometimes becomes business". So the new sources of gaining fun are produced by familiar formula "Let's see how they beat this". And so we have roughly just an damage\defence\resource outcome increase for the new MVPs and still have gears that, for european view of world, is not completely worth such mess and nerves loss on high-end MVP.
Don't forget, that in Korea 7-days work week was forbidden not so far ago and their way of thinking is still "work hard for almost nothing". Look at Lineage 2. Do you REALLY think that in game - the source of FUN in the first place - there is a place for a 0.0000376% drop chance? No, IT IS NOT.
So we have a situation, when a farmer-grinder way of thinking meets with a "idea became business one day".
In MMO, like in real life we need a CLEAR UNDERSTANDING, that we have a progress, that we have an achievement. But what we have in later RO Episodes MVPs? Safety Wall spamming in the best case, reflect exploit in the worst. Well, may be I just want to say, that Doddler mentioned system of ballance by increasing effectivness of skill to counter other skill's overpower has come to a dead-end.
And about an instance system. I think if it was a bad idea, somewhat famous WoW would be dead already. So may be the Renewal Project and instance system is a cure for a tendency of MVP and gear overpowering.
Diamon wrote on August 25, 2008
P.S. A big thanks if you read this thoughts chaos.
*canceled not so long ago
Storm Gust wrote on August 26, 2008
this wasnt that long >_>......but non-theless TRUE.....in my private server i play....my friend MVPing teams SUCk.....they just take a bunch of snipers 1-2 high priest THAT DOESnt EVEN KNOW PHENUMA BLOCKS HELL'S JUGMENT a clown and 1-2 HW for stormgust i was one of the HW and we went to kuttulanux and WE ALL DIED....i know this doesnt have much to do with this rant...sorry....
Teoc wrote on August 26, 2008
Well, i think that the time variation will solve a part of th8is problem, with time variation one guild can monopolize one MvP but there´s no way the y can manage all mvp with spawn variations.
Aiofe wrote on August 26, 2008
This would be a nice item for iRO indeed, especially with Loki's situation, but as much as i have thrown into the kafra shop myself i still don't support it much. I would rather see the "convex mirror" item drop from something like castle treasure boxes or OPB's. I just don't like encouraging items to be placed in a "money paid for" type situation.
There can never be full balance in the game as there is always someone willing to spend more money and time ingame and out to get ahead but any little step to help out the casual or even not-so-casual player is a plus.
Diamon wrote on August 27, 2008
Of course a convex mirror is a bad solution, cause it makes us pay real money for a game disbalance, it makes us pay for a time that we don't want to spend on waiting. Is it right? Well, i don't think so.
schi wrote on August 27, 2008
if an experienced team kills an mvp over month 24/7, there should be very little time variation to their killing time. so if you know one killing time you should be able to project the expected spawn times for several days with only few minutes differences (and camping a few min is not the problem, right?)
if you, in addition, know when the server went up after maintenance, it should be easy to get the times of mvps. getting a team that can win against these "monopolists" is the harder part, though
Mischelle, iRO Iris wrote on August 28, 2008
So now that you've had a MvPing to a saturated level that there is no competition for your allies, it is ok to implement this item? It seems moreso that the convex mirror would allow the insur alliance to dominate even more MvPs at their whim. Low tier MvPs, hunted by 2 man teams not in the insur alliance would start falling prey to bored insur members looking for MvPs while they wait for Valk. The opposite is not likely to happen. There is not going to be the competition for the high tier MvPs because it requires more than the convex mirror, like you said it requires the experience. Using a convex mirror to obtain the MvP time is not going to rule out the competion from the monopoly guild, and as long as that monopoly is there to take on the MvP, mirror or no mirror, the competition is not going to be able to take hold.
Storm Gust wrote on August 31, 2008
oh and WE DUN EVEN GET KAFRA SHOP ITEMS on my pserver
Wired wrote on September 1, 2008
About the whole monopoly thing.
I've run into dirty play tactics with alpha too D= What I find difficult about competitive mvp'ing is the limited supplies and experience (as you've said) the mvp's don't roam about long enough for anyone to really learn to adjust to the situation.
I've sure as hell wanted to join some big guild just to be able to get close enough to see the higher end mvps, and to learn there is a ranking system to even receive any bounty from it... let alone you don't get reimbursed for supplies you've used D=
Artimus wrote on September 8, 2008
Don't think convex mirror will make much difference.
The big monopoly guilds can still use them too..
I think 99% of the server has given up opposing the monopoly.
And the 1% that still tries, cant do anything.
Sad, however... that 90% of the server can't enjoy the end-game content due to a few people.