Doddler's RO Journal

GolGate wrote on September 11, 2008

Mages and Archers in the past would be sad right now, due to level difference restrictions. No more "go geographer", "go GH culvert and vfwall sting".
But I think I can see the point of this change. x)

PS. 12.1 coming up next in tRO! Well, yes, if no postponing is there. D:

Vaqaas of Iris wrote on September 11, 2008

I actually like these new changes. But honestly, it might not look like WoW, but RO does follow a couple of the mechanics, like not being able to damage higher level monsters than you, and how STR doesn't affect your damage that much anymore. But those two facts are really small, it's most likely a coincidence that RO and WoW both have that.

Yue wrote on September 11, 2008

Took me 10 minutes to read that one [ponders]... Doddler seems to feel that the Renewal Patch is trying to reinvent Ragnarok Online itself into a better game.

If this keeps up, every RO resources like simulators and calculators will change and they will have to really delete the guides at GameFaqs. ^_^

But still, ultimate builds are still bound to be discovered. Ex. AGI/LUK

Dagda wrote on September 11, 2008

I feel perhaps I should say something here. I started playing RO way back near the end of beta 1 but I stoped playing about 3 years ago when I got bored with it. Since then I've come back a few times for a month or so but never really stuck around.

Now I've been on the kRO renewal server VERY casualy leveling a knight (level 96 as of writing) and I have to say I'm having more fun with it then I have since the first year of RO. For me renewal is a good thing and I hope it can help RO draw some of its players back, hell I might even come back.

P.S. I play WoW. RO is not WoW.

P.P.S. Don't get your panties in a not about people not liking it Doddler, there's a set of rules that I like to follow when it comes to MMO's
#1: 95% of players hate the company running and developing the game they're paying monthly for.
#2: Those developers they hate better not fuck with the game they don't like or they'll throw a hissy fit for breaking the game they swear they hate but still pay for.

Frost wrote on September 12, 2008

Question: Is bragi's poem changed? Because if it still reduces delay like before, I see no change to SD spamming :P.

Terry wrote on September 12, 2008

WoW isn't the only MMO with rules, that u doesn't make much dmg to higher Monster...
There are a lot of MMO's that got that "rule", like Flyff.
But I rly think that that renewal project/patch rly improves the game by itself.
And the ppl who complains... should first test it, before complaining :D

Zable Fahr wrote on September 12, 2008

Some ppl tend to forget why they try to make the renewal. Even though one might say, they do this only for more players to play... Honestly, who would play this game if it would get worse?
I'm thinking positive. I've got nearly no idea of the new mechanics. So I'm hoping the best :) - Still, I've basically "learned" the game and it's mechanics - And that's why I love it ^^

Well... Some thoughts about the new system. Imagine 2k players online at some given time. Some might level here, some might level there. But there is still a relatively serious thing I think about that - Higher level players can literally mob a whole map in search for ITEMS. Even if they might change the drops the way, that you don't have to rely on "lower" level items anymore (e.g muffler from sohee), you'd still want some cards. And everyone knows - the best way to get cards is kill as many monster as fast as possible. And this is easily done with any higher level character with some decent equip.

I personally think, the basic idea of the renewal is good. But actually change the actual RO into the new one... So much things to consider, it might be easier to simply remake it from the grounds.

So far, I'd like to test it..

Hadriel wrote on September 12, 2008

most parts of the renewal are just plain retarded, theyre making the game intoa idiot safe game just like other games

that gears now are the most relevant thing is fucking gay, it gives an even bigger advantage to rich players if you havent though of this yet, with every update the hunting for new weapons is going to start again? im guessing this gonna be a lot like wow

the new stat system just turns all chars from one class in about the same with some gibberish build with some of all stats

the uselessness of wizard aoe skills sucks too, if someone wants to bolt theyd be way better off making a prof, to be honest, sg is not a fucking killer in woe anyways

also the level difference thing seems as abusable as lvling low chars with help was before, with the new system it shouldnt be a problem that any(well almost) high level char mobs a whole map for you

its nice that they try to make more useful lvling maps for example, but the way they do it seems totally retarded

to sum it up: i like that theyre at least putting some efford into the game but its going into totally wrong directions imo

Zable Fahr wrote on September 12, 2008

You've got a point, Hadriel... I mean, basically high level ppl can mob maps for theyr friends. This needs some workover.

Other than that - think always positive, it simplfies life for a huge amount :D

Biri wrote on September 12, 2008

I almost hate to say it, but everything you addressed were big issues in my mind that I thought were going to cause me to truly hate RO. But now I'm actually looking forward to it.

In other words, this was a great article and I thank you for your time in writing it. Hopefully it will have the same impact on others as well.

Kila wrote on September 12, 2008

There's many things i disagree with doddler and many i agree with. However, one thing I extremely disagree is about the role playing part. The playing 'their' character" and "'a' character" part. I have had 10+ friends, some real life, that only played one character and grew tired of it and quit. I use to only play one character but i got bored of it.

This is a MMORPG not an RPG. That's the difference, you will grow tired of playing "one thing" after a while-reason why Final Fantasy has different Final Fantasies. Not to mention that Gravity tends to screw 'some' classes from time to time-i'm sure this will be the case even after the renewal. How crappy RO will be for some people that only play 'their' char and get shafted by gravity because they screwed up their character. This update is a double edge sword like any update. Has potential to be good and has potential to be bad.

For future reference, there is no "one size" fits all. People play old school.. new school... mix of both... and others level in odd ways(I met a few).

Guru Clef wrote on September 12, 2008

Sorry doddler, but I’m get a little angry when I see people thinking hwiz “just SG”, thats wrong.

Ok, thats our best skill, but some class just click and click another monster to kill him. Its like the Azura of champs or AD of a creator, etc. Many diferents class have a principal skill.

Yeah, 95% of hwiz think that they only need SG. But I don’t think soo, I’m think the best hwiz is who can play with the variety of skills. Even I’m playing with /BM I miss some more space to use more skills playing. I’m always using Quagmire, heavens drive, safety wall, fire bolt, jupitel thunder or even MS and napalm beat (to call mob), etc, in EVERY MAP I’M PLAY!!! I hate when I see a hwiz thinkin “you only need SG to mvp” when I use many and many skills like IW, Quag to the map natural mob, waterball, MS/heavens drive to kill some mvps with windy elements etc. Years ago I was a wizard with LoV, FW and frost driver and I’m always have used this skills in diferents moments. FW is a very usefull skill even with you play in high level, to solo zumbis, to block some monsters like Arclouses and somethings like this, and to kill Sin/hunter in WOE.

In PvP/Woe petrify, FB and even could bolt nv 10 can be usefull too. The player skill and how they play can determine with he are a very limited “just SG hwiz” or with he can handle many diferents situations.

To see how I’m talking about, please see this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5cygAc8crM

I’m don’t think that the renewal will ruin RO. But in the case of wizards, I’m fear that I’ll lost many dynamic and fun in PVM, like I’m doing this video. I’m like to make combos with the skills I have in a very short time. And renewal will make me think “How many times cast AoE is a good option? Stop and pray 10 seconds to cast a storm gust, even with stronger damage don’t sounds soo funny =( and fronze on first hit?? Thats make me a little sad, just a little.

Yeah, maybe this is a price to get balanced game, ok. And we have to wait the third classes. But the way of play a wizard change TO MUCH, more than any class. I think the highwizards go to another extreme of field, they nerf to much Storm Gust =/

Change is a good think. Renewal is a good idea and act. But who play four years thinking: “ohh I’m like wizards becouse they have a lot of good skills, dynamo, not so good damage in PvP, Woe (to muchhhhhh mdef equips) and losing to many other class in MVP, but they a nice cast and a lot of combination to make” and now to play with a fixed, bored and limited cast time and your AoE more limited to some situations, making your SG 10 very times useless becouse nerf the cast AND efect. Thats not sounds to funny. Just my opnion and a expeculation.

(Sorry about my ugly English),

Guru Clef
PS: Doddler, can you help-me please play KRO renewal server? Can you create a kro count?????? MAAUHHUAAHU JUST A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

themvpah wrote on September 12, 2008

when i was reading all the info about the patch it sounded like the game would be much more balanced and improved, and reading your posts didn't change that. everyone else is just afraid of change, i guess

Talvis&Talnis wrote on September 12, 2008

I am liking this more and more. Now if I can only stay active until it comes to IRO. Perhaps my choice to stay agi as a LK wont be a bad thing anymore.

Mulek wrote on September 12, 2008

"I was initially going to rant about this later but I decided I'll post my week two update later The point is, people are saying that this is going to ruin RO."

Well, i read it all, and i am still thinking that the renewal will ruin RO. Sorry.

eyeless wrote on September 12, 2008

Gravity thinks that it is possible to fix the whole game in 3-4 months? Completely rework balance of ALL cards, items, monsters and skills? Hell no, I don't believe so much in Gravity.

Mischelle, iRO Iris wrote on September 13, 2008

While most of the renewal seems very promising, one thing worries me. If Atk is so much equipment based, is there going to be any reason to play any class besides something on the order of a battle priest? Say I get on my LK, after renewal, with my hefty 120 Str, and I'm meleeing for 700 damage a hit... then along comes a support priest, with 10-20 Str and starts smacking things for 580, but never has to sit, spend money on pots, and does 800 damage instead when he attacks a demon monster?

Really what I am saying is ATM, if you want to be good at a particular thing you have to build your character in a particular way that sacrafices your ability to do somthing else. If you are a support priest in my example, with renewal it seems like you can change gear and say "HA HA dumb melee classes, My Iron Driver/Wrench/Quadrille/Swordmace has better atk than your 2HandSword, even with no STR I can out DPS you!" and then change back and heal for 2000-2800.

Kirano wrote on September 13, 2008

Uh, Mischelle? "On a high str build, your strength probably makes up close to half the damage you do."

Mischelle, iRO Iris wrote on September 13, 2008

"Close to half"... means to me so I am out there doing X-hundred damage a hit with my endowed carded overupgraded weapon when I go 90 str or more. Thats a lot of sacrafice if say a FS priest, with little or no str, can come in and do half the damage I do, x/2-hundred a hit? Ok so half isnt as impressive but consider all the other things the priest can do, and ALSO deal out that kind of damage? Or a wizard, with a good atk staff could beat you down with it and wear a JT clip and own you with that too...

Will I go duel a priest in pvp and not only find myself unable to defeat him, as he debuffs, silences, heals, and protects himself with SW and Penuma.. but also that he beats me to a pulp with his chain even when he has no str at all? ... I don't know, but I WANT to know. Its up in the air and it worries me a bit.

Thyrial wrote on September 14, 2008

Doddler I think you're missing some of the reasoning behind people disliking this. For quite a few people it's not that they think the game will be ruined or the game will be bad it's that the game will be different. I play RO for what it is and what it has always been, not for this. Alot of the things that have kept me playing RO are changed in renewal... The higher dependence on gear then stats is one thing that really pisses me off, the huge customization available for character builds in RO is probably the biggest plus it has imo. With gear mattering more now the characters build means less overall. The level based monster damage and such makes using creative leveling methods to fight monsters you "shouldn't" be able to impossible.

tl;dr version: It's not that people necessarily think the renewal will be bad it's that there's too many changes away from what make's RO different.

Wild Wolf wrote on September 14, 2008

I'm pretty interested in the renewal changes, especially far as leveling goes. I used to get so tired leveling in the same places, and barely getting rewarded for it. I'm looking forward to the renewal.

t-train wrote on September 15, 2008

mischelle, let's not forget that knights have these things called skills that enable them to do more damage than a regular attack, while priests have mainly support skills.

then again i have killed soul linkers and wizards on my HP with a long mace and the occasional envenom clip spam.

Kiss Minte wrote on September 15, 2008

Well at the start I kinda felt like half of the group that was agenst it, but the more information that comes out about the Renewal and more SS's. It kinda makes me more intrested and feel better about it. Right now we are only getting information from the select few people that have access to this Testing. So by all means keep pouring in the new information, anyone whos playing this test server.

So until we get it, and we experance it im not gonna say anything as of right now saying that its going to trash RO or make it suck "imo".

And as people have said it already, alot of people just fear change and don't like it. No matter how "well off" It makes a game. It happens.

Nimrael wrote on September 16, 2008

I disagee that lowering meaning of stats is good idea.
Particalarry it's look like "It doesn't matter if you exercise in gym (str) or studying in university (int), with right equipment difference will be low". It's ill way. If You recall any real or fantasy stories, then you'll find, that personal abilities are much more important on way to take success, than equipment.

bRO player wrote on September 16, 2008

@Guru Clef: "I’m fear that I’ll lost many dynamic and fun in PVM"
I think that's the one most important thing the devs must consider. Balance is really important, but a perfectly balanced game that has no fun to play is just a piece of junk.

@Mischelle, iRO Iris:
I played priest on RO. I started on beta with a swordman, but later changed for a priest and I simply LOVED to play as support. I never cared about doing damage. So reading that a FS priest can take a mace and hit monsters for some damage, for me, is utterly boring and useless. I think a ME priest is still better and much more fun. I would rather party and adapt to play with other classes/player styles than ever touching a mace to kill some monster. Except for fun. ^^

@Doddler:
I'm happy I came across your post. I see devs are changing lots of things. The linear problem of defense, cast speed etc. is a core problem of RO, not because of itself, but because it makes it difficult to evolve and deal with change. No wonder they couldn't launch 3rd classes without touching that problem.

I quit RO one and a half years ago. I'm not into many news that might have happened, but last year I wrote a "rant" that I would like to share with you. It's an e-mail originally written to Wauks (marketing guy of Level Up Philippines). I think it still hold valid points.

http://www.lunatica.com.br/RO_Current_problems.txt

Just fast forwarding a bit from that text, I know WoW has guild bank now so it's a bit more than a /g channel today.

I know that there are free-to-play ROs and that they are surely not bad as I though they would be. Talking about renewal, I thought it was very interesting to play an RO without teleport, such as bRO free server when it began. It's polemic to even dare suggest that for some, but it does give another feel to dungeons and monsters - think of dealing with mobs or special monsters such as Tirfing. That alone makes groups much more interesting. And it screws bots on any map you need half a brain to play so it has a plus.

I still find hypermart / kafra shop deeply offensive. So when I read that the game will be more equip dependent and remember that those shops exist, it makes me want to puke. I would like to go back and play the classic subscription server as I played for years but with that shop around, no way. I would rather play the free server, of course buying nothing. And while I wait for a clean classic subscription server with no hypermart / kafra shop Gravity can also wait for my money.

Navy wrote on September 16, 2008

You can split iRO ppl in class juts like in life, poor, mid and elite. Basicly what the renewal seems to be trying to do it put those class all to mid

So therefore the elite ppl that can make a new trans character in less then a week complain, because they get shafted. Poor are happy cause it will be easier for everything, mid semi complain because they loose will their source of income (the elite). But the renewal doesn't really affect personally in term of lvling/hunting because it's how it already is for them.

WayLay wrote on September 22, 2008

With my 110 STR LK I really don't think this renewal thing will do me any good unless gravity will also reset my stats so i can fix it appropriately and in case they won't its a good reason to quit the game. I'm not going to pay again just to level another character simply because the game developer decided to change it for whatever reason they have and I will not pay again to discover that due to this changes the build my characters currently have will eventually be a useless one. Character Builds are planned to tune to a particular role, ability, effect, or goal and if you can achieve the same result by simply a matter of equipment being used will you still go for a 99 STR LK knowing a 70 STR LK will be much better because you can be more diverse by putting the stats points you save from STR to the rest of your characters attributes? RENEWAL is good if your character is actually RENEWED but if RENEWAL is only for the game system then it SUCKS!!!! BIG TIME!!!!

Kirano wrote on September 24, 2008

There's no way they're stupid enough not to allow people a free reset for this, exactly because people would have to rebalance their charact3ers.

Kergal wrote on September 27, 2008

Tsk, as soon as I read that equipment was even MORE significative than it already is, I got completely pissed off. I mean, seriously. As RO is right now, an equipped character, independently of how well he plays, can easily beat the crap out of a very skilled player that has little or no equipment. The fact that Gravity makes equipment even MORE important is just plain wrong IMHO.

Mallia F'tero wrote on September 29, 2008

I just returned to RO after two years of quiting and I am starting over(my account was basically destroyed by someone I thought was a friend). I don't really know what has been happening on iRO but I see nothing has changed. The elite are still elite, new peopel come and usually quit because of the lack of a community and the people in the middle just coax along.

That being said I am not paticipating in WOE(a lvl 35 Thief really wouldn't do too well :-p)but I am loving the game again. I am even considering joining a non-WOE guild and stay out of all the main RO drama.

I am actually excited about this. I hope it makes things a little harder for the people who make 99 characters within a week and promotes partying more becaus elet's face it, unless you are a useful Trans char you won't find a party anymore on iRO.

Marie wrote on November 25, 2012

While I'm open to change and others are not, it seems the hard-working developers are left with no choice but to try and appease both sides by creating Classic [Pre-Renewal mechanics, maps, and so forth]. Yet the masses still manage to find something to cause an uproar about...

Please people, just be glad with what you have and if you're not, simply don't play.